From this viewpoint who gets to decide who is a responsible gun owner and who isn’t?
Certainly not people who live in other countries=)
Seriously though you still don’t get it, the question isn’t who gets to decide the characteristics of the responsible gun owner, it’s who gets to decide what is criminal gun use, the answer of course, is we (Americans) do.
We can broadly divide political philosophies into the assertions that humans can live a worthwhile life if left to their own devices. On the other side we have claims humans are inherently flawed and that we can only live worthwhile lives if we are under constant supervision
When we look at a problem in our society we don’t look at it from the top down, but the bottom up. So when psycho’s start shooting up public schools we don’t immediately leap to let’s regulate the behaviour of 37,500,000 citizens to stop the problem. Heck for that matter, when we are planning to do most anything the first thing we think of isn’t asking for permission.
Back to the matter at hand although, the assertion the best way to protect a place or a person is to increase vulnerability seems insane.
Where is the legislation to stop ‘anyone’ buying guns from gun shows, be they responsible gun owners or a ‘nutter’?
What makes you think legislation that will stop ‘anyone’ from buying a gun from a gun show or the classified newspaper advertisements will do anything positive. You’ve seen the math, why should we disrupt the daily affairs of the millions of ‘responsible’ citizens in a futile attempt to stop dangerous humans, whether the violent criminal, the murderous lunatic, or the ideologically driven terrorists from planning and carrying out there atrocities? I think it’s pretty clear that you cannot remove these threats with legislation
There just isn’t anything in place that has regard for human life in America.
This is the bit that dissuaded me from a youtube comment answer and sent me here.
Think about what you have written. Can you honestly claim to believe that there isn’t anything in America that has a regard for human life? Our charities don’t exist? Our ‘social justice’ government programs don’t exist? The relief efforts after a major disaster anywhere in the world that finds NGO Americans, using their personal resources and under their own volition working right along side the ‘official’ efforts carried out by the United States government shows there isn’t a regard for human life in America? Are you high?
You know more people have died in America from gun murder in the last year than in the Iraq war.
No I don’t know that, because it isn’t true. 12,000 doesn’t equal 100,000 to 1,000,000 (depending on which numbers are correct)
. Think about that for a moment, are you basing your opinions on truth or the gossip in popular culture.
If you ponder that thought you have to ask questions of where the American people place their priorities.
Well from my point of view as an American person, we place our priorities on the severest problems first, as guided by facts, unless some moon bat (not claiming your one of them) activists have been spreading FUD that takes our time away from real problems like say falls, which killed 24,792 Americans in 2009. Or accidental poisoning, which killed 31,758. Or maybe alcohol induced deaths that accounted for 24,518 American lives lost. How about renal failure (fancy Doctor talk for Kidney Failure) which accounted for 43,840. Malignant neoplasms that left 567,628 of us dead
When you stack these up against the 11,493 gun homicides the claim we should focus and prioritize on firearms in American society starts to look kind of tattered.
And that is even with the heavy suggestion and sway that Iraq is a lawless land, where in fact America is a supposed civilized country but there is more emphasis put on a soldier dying in Iraq than there is on some black dude from the ghetto being shot. There is an arguable disparity between the two circumstances but if you are talking philosophy then it is unlike a philosophy I have ever encountered or indulged in.
Already disposed of the Iraq fallacy above which is good because you have stumbled over a vital point. The role of skin color in American Politics when applied to guns. Black Americans have been uniquely stressed over the last 200 years. Starting with slavery, then ‘freedom’ that didn’t address education, which led to poverty, then the legalized Jim Crow abomination in the south was accompanied by the de facto segregation in the north wrapped up with a big shiny bow by Lyndon Johnson’s Great Society programs have all combined to disrupt the social and cultural conditions of Black Americans, like no other group I know of in history. Then add the prejudice that determines who can and cannot discuss issues facing Black Americans, the situation just sucks and I don’t know, I don’t think anybody knows how to fix it. But without assigning blame we can acknowledge that.
- Black American’s are generally poorer than the rest of the country
- A large segment of male Black American’s have been raised by a several generations of Matriarchy, which is a non-optimal environment for training male children to become functional adults..
- Most of the population of Crime on Crime means Black Crime on Black Crime.
- Since Black American’s are more likely to have a felony arrest, they are less likely to be included in the above ground gun culture, which in turn denies them the same educational opportunities in terms of safe gun handling skills and appropriate usage. This ignorance about guns is so prevalent it has started showing up in the lyrics and films created by Black Americans
- Gun control in the U.S. has always been racially motivated
- Any attempt to address criminal, and especially crime on crime violence must deal with the racialist demagogues from all sides.
In light of the above, I think you can grasp the difficulty and the intensity of the struggle to combat the crime on crime gun violence that accounts for 80% of the problem. The elimination of which I have mathematically demonstrated elsewhere would bring American gun violence down to the level of European gun violence
This part of the issue becomes surreal when you find out the role of guns in the hands of Black Americans during the civil rights movement
And with due respect, I have been meaning to respond to your forum but I have not been compelled to of late. If you take the last 3 mass shootings in the UK as an example. Each of those individuals was a legal gun carrier and would be considered by you and other mainstream pro gun advocates as quote ‘responsible gun owners’. Therein lays the fallacy that gun ownership and responsible should ever be used in the same sentence in an unequivocal and complete sense, it’s broken logic, not even logic.
And I must say I don’t see any logic here. Because 3 men shoot up places in the U.K. the entire population of American gun owners must be considered irresponsible? This is the logic that says since young black men are arrested more than any other group, to keep society safe they should all be imprisoned when they turn 15 and not be let out until their 30. That since a small subset of drivers use their vehicle as a weapon, then all drivers are irresponsible in an unequivocal and complete sense. If you believe one of above claims is true, you have to believe all are true, as they are structurally identical. Do you see the flaw here?
If you want to come to London I will gladly escort you around the roughest of the roughest estates and ares in London. I can’t promise we would get no trouble, but I can promise you we can actually fucking walk into them without any fear of being shot lol, not just that, I can show you how little emphasis or fascination or need we have for guns, they are simply unnecessary. You are welcome to take me up on my offer.
Sure and I’ll match your offer, come across the pond and I’ll take you on a tour of what passes for ‘the ghetto’ in my state (the worst we have to offer in my region, I have a certain Section 8 apt complex in mind). If you like I’ll leave you there to explain your philosophy that guns are unnecessary to the inhabitants, you shouldn’t worry much about being shot as none of the residents own guns. I can’t guarantee you will be there when I come back anymore than I can guarantee anyone will ever see you again. Let me put it this way, I would recommend you put your affairs in order first.
Or we can go everywhere, and I mean everywhere, else, restaurants, stores, parks, library’s, churches, museums, the stockyards, truck stops, video arcades, shopping malls, outlet malls (entirely different from shopping malls), private homes, where ever you want to really, even onto public school grounds (I am legally barred from going with you so I’ll wait in the car). And you might not believe this but you don’t need to worry about being shot even though quite a few of the people we encounter will be armed, although you won’t be able to tell who is and who isn’t in most cases. The odds of one of my neighbours or countrymen being both armed and psycho is so low as to be statistically insignificant. I can guarantee if you want me to drop you off in any of these areas you’ll be there when I come back. Put it this way, I’d have no problem with you holding onto my wallet, baby, or bag of gold while your not in my armed company. Hopefully this will show you how your obsession with who is or isn’t allowed to be armed is simply unnecessary.
No man and woman walking this earth is immune to depression, psychotic episodes and aggression. That is why guns are incompatible with people..
This is the final failure, you realize we live in a dangerous world, although not as grim as you have painted because depression, psychotic episodes and even aggression doesn’t automatically transform into mass murder if the poor soul afflicted with such a condition also owns guns. . I think people are basically decent, even those people who I am fiercely in disagreement on political or religious issues with are never going to be a threat to me or anyone else. So I don’t mind if they are armed or not. Since violent crime continues to decline while the number of armed Americans continues to rise, I’m confident that guns are compatible with people. Invalidating any paranoid phobia or neuroses about the owning and carry firearms.
Look I understand that this issue is unique to the United States. The rest of the world, especially Europe, have created their social and government organizations in such a way as to eliminate any need for their populace being able to protect themselves, or indeed even seek that option. European political science is so perfect that tyrants, psychotics, and terrorists, not to mention violent criminals, just don’t pose a credible threat anymore, not just today but tomorrow as well. Especially since stalkers, rapists kidnappers, murderers and robbers don’t pose any more danger beyond the level of the fist fight. Maybe in 100 years we violent racist, misogynistic scared, paranoid Americans will finally grow up enough to get rid of our guns. And seat belts. And insurance. And doors. Until then I don’t think we can change our society enough so that it no longer scares you. Sorry
One last quick point, I didn’t wake up one morning and decide, today I am going to educate the world on the beneficial aspects that owning and carrying firearms provide, at both the individual level as well as society as a whole. I was just stumbling around the net looking at stuff that caught my eye and found this video, and more importantly, the ludicrous nonsensical views some people have about guns and/or Americans.
I think that if truth is not presented, falseness wins by default.
Falsehoods must be challenged simply because what you don’t know will kill you
Without a regard for human life I could easily ignore this issue but since I do regard and treasure human lives I am compelled to act
Until We No Longer Have To Play Under Waco vs Romainian Rules!
Keep Your Powder Dry Baby!!